Thursday, June 07, 2007
Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2007 10:19:49 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)  Comments [6] | 
Categories: Blogging | General | Software

I sat down this evening to write up a post on implemeting the Provider Pattern as another plug-in strategy for your .NET applications, but before I dug into that, I did some blog reading and caught up on the GeoCommons discussion that's been running on James Fee and Steve Citron-Pousty's blogs. I'll delay the technical post and instead throw my two cents into the mix.

My Take...

As someone much more involved in the backend technologies of the GIS space, I think that James (and to some extend Steve) is missing the point. This is not about metadata, quality of data, cartography, geography, democratization, "elitists" or "high-priests". In large part it's not specifically about the tool itself. I believe we are discussing Geocommons for the simple fact that it's another element in the suite of disruptive technologies which are making waves through the geospatial industry.

Disruptive Technology

First it was Google with blindingly fast "slippy" maps based on tile caches. Slam. I would say that pretty much no one in the "established" GIS field saw that coming, or if they did they did a good job of keeping it a secret. In addition to redefining what web mapping was (particularly with respect to performance) they also changed how web mapping applications worked. Enter the javascript API and mashups. While few mashups were particularly useful, it resulted in tens of thousands of people developing and working with geospatial data. As the push-pin map frenzy has been cooling off, we are seeing more complex integrations utilizing open source backend tools to create very powerful platforms. We see greater particpation in open source projects (OpenLayers comes to mind). We see KML beginning to displace both long standing formats and nascent standards. This is a sea change for an industry where the defacto tool prior to 2000 looked like this...


These new "geospatial" developers are not thinking in the "old" ways. They are pushing technology because they don't know things are supposed to be difficult or impossible. And for those of you who may not have seen this yet - check out this video from the TED conference where Blaise Aguera y Arcas (Microsoft Research) discusses and demos SeaDragon & Photosynth. Want to bet this shakes things up in the GIS arena? If you've solved the problems these guys have, throwing projection-on-the-fly into the mix is not going to be that big a deal.

Disruptive Marketing

The industry is changing, and it's not just the technology - it's also the marketing of technology.
Would any of these discussions have occured if FortiusOne simply did a press release about GeoIQ? Or a simple demo page on their site? Heck no. We're talking about this because they created a community site to do what previously required some arkane skills, expensive software and a treasure trove of data. The site is cool, as lots of "sizzle" and yes you can do some "neat" stuff which may or may not have legitmacy/credibility. But that's beside the point. The point here is that FortiusOne has pushed things forward. Heat maps on the fly. A community site to promote the product & service. Very different. Very Web 2.0. And clearly getting lots of attention.

Change from Outside

As far as I can see, GIS - particularly the public consumption side of things - is being re-defined by people from outside the GIS industry. Why is this? Have we all be so insular that no new ideas are being hatched? Are the industry leaders so content with their position that innovation takes a back seat to stability and safe decisions? Have the elitists and priests ignored the Where 2.0 crowd, possibly at their own peril? What do you think?


Friday, June 08, 2007 5:05:35 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Well said.
Friday, June 08, 2007 7:50:27 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Dave:

The economist in me would say that the dominance of government entities and companies that live off of multi-year government contracts probably has a lot to do with why the many of the innovations you discussed came from outside the traditional GIS industry. You have the the double whammy of 1) conforming to the terms of the contract throughout its life cycle (I personally was on a contract that called for AV 3.x in 1999 and in 2005 guess what we were using??) and 2) government work provides a predictable income stream--where's the pressure to innovate?


I for one find it invigorating that innovation--even misconceived innovation--is happening, well, "all over the map" and am glad to see the back of the old model of shuffling off to San Diego every summer to see what was new.


Brian Timoney
Friday, June 08, 2007 9:45:22 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Brian,

Good point on the government inertia slowing innovation within the field. Interestingly though, we are seeing some "mashup" type functionality being used in Government agencies - which indicates to me that while existing contracts may not be flexible, innovations are embraced when presented to the agencies. The take away is: While you may have the contract today, keep innovating so you keep the contract tomorrow.

I think that this year's trip to San Diego should be telling - will they remain on the old track of handing down the "truth" to the willing masses, or will they take a new approach? With many alpha-GeoGeeks attending Where 2.0 and the OSGeo/FOSS4G conferences, the same-old same-old may not go over as well...

Cheers,

Dave
Friday, June 08, 2007 10:07:20 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
Its not just contracts that affect government agencies. Its legal mandates based on presidential directives and interoperability.

Until these disruptive technologies are integrated into the larger technology stacks, they're not going to have much use for people who are legally obligated to care about other things.

We're considering setting up Z39.50's at my work... ancient history stuff. Why? Because thats one of the widest-used legacy interoperability standards in our current problem space. Could we use REST? Oh heck yeah. But we don't control the dollars and time of our cooperators who spent $$$$ on Z39.50 years ago.
Sunday, June 10, 2007 5:42:43 AM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
in my bones i know this is disruptive innovation pure and simple

i've been doing web GIS since 1995. I strapped that ArcInfo prompt above to the web via IAC, built a tile based system for the web and 486 desktops, wrote myself an AV-Web (till i discovered the license said no), wrote a free molt based web mapper that had pushpins cause i had a sense that maybe web as datasource was going to be important, wrote and rewrote apps from mo-ims, to arcims, a mapping application markup language -hell i wrote my own arcims server clone from scratch because i was too cheap to buy a real one

-but did I bother to climb onto a plane and turn up to where2?

NO. I remain addicted to those ESRI customer budgets. I'm doing the same job i was in 2000. In ESRI terms i'm a radical, but in the total perspective vortex of the web i'm a conservative with one of those novelty comic neckties

-now *that* my friends is disruptive innovation -when you can see the train wreck coming from 10 miles off, but you can't bring yourself to jump off the damm train
Monday, June 11, 2007 4:52:20 PM (Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-06:00)
I think that the tremendous acceptance of open source and the drive to compete with Microsoft for search and location based services caused companies like Google to think outside the box. You are correct that long term government contracts cause companies like ESRI (primarily ESRI) to spend too much time and resources on maintaining those relationships, but this is also not a clear cut case of a large company or industry resting on it's laurels because they have a stable funding source.

In keeping with what Bill said above, flashy web applications and the ability to render mashups is nice, but it's far from a full functioning GIS, and one of the things that keeps ESRI behind the curve is that they're trying to develop for the wider audience, including the power GIS users who demand uber-geoprocessing functionality. If ESRI only had to program around a 3D web interface that you could import your own data onto, they'd probably be right where Google is, or beyond.

Note that 3D Analyst, or some version of it, has been in production for years now. Sure, the internet version of that hasn't really been there, nor has the caching, but note the similarity with Google's product, and note that ESRI had something functional along that line far before Google released anything.
Technology is usually a case of one innovation building on another, and my impression is that applications like Google Earth and MS Virtual Earth might not exist were it not for the innovations of companies like ESRI.

Also, I've noticed at the last several user conferences that there's been a big push for stability and documentation. I.E. the user base (and not just the big contracts) are screaming for stability OVER new functionality. That's not something that Google is having to deal with yet.

I'm not saying this to defend ESRI, by any means. I'm just saying that there's a reason that ESRI is still the dominant GIS in the industry and it's not just because they've got big fat government contracts. Having these non-GIS players come out with this really cool disruptive technology is going to drive other GIS companies to either drive the technology further, or allow them to excel in other areas.
Further, who knows what's going to happen next? If Google or MS tried to widen their scope and create more complete GIS systems, would they sacrifice the technological edge over ESRI and Intergraph that they've created? Will ESRI give up on their internet applications and focus on server software that creates GIS services, including those that just serve up KML files to be read in GE or VE, while improving desktop and server geoprocessing and other functionality?
Rich L'Esperance
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